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geoff

thanks for posting this, steve. gives some context to your reaction.

in your original post, surely you are not suggesting that camaraderie (read: solidarity, unity, "team people") is problematic? it seems essential to me (john 17) - and yes, even for cultural creatives.

also, i'm interested in how we might respond to the stress that commuting and work/family/life-demands make on us, causing the abundant life of christian community to so often be out of reach. perhaps you are blaming frost/hirsch for sketching an overly demanding missional-ecclesiology when you should be pressing back into the structures/systems that have you so exhausted.
*disclaimer/confession* - i am an aussie bloke :)

shalom

Steve Collins

re camaraderie: it's the *male* bit that's problematic. and the 'us against the world' aspect can be, too.

i'm going to blog about work to add some more context.

sally

seems to me this whole gender thing is qutie a big issue in the u.k. Is it mostly men that have the problem with the maleness of it or do the women struggle with it too.

it is a foreign point of contention to me so am quite interested.

Steve Collins

we've been made very aware of it as an issue by many of the women involved in alt worship in my neck of the woods - i'm voicing something of their critiques, which i've had to learn. it's also a major issue - for women at least - in emerging church circles in the USA, where many people are coming out of church backgrounds which don't allow women in leadership. hence the 'emerging women leaders' network formed this summer. and the responses to jenny baker's post 'what women want' on jonny baker's blog. just click on the category 'emerging church' on that blog and scroll down - you'll find plenty of controversy!

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